tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post1956161420020037953..comments2024-03-18T18:33:59.080-07:00Comments on The Left Chapter: Delusion continues to rule the day in Mulcair NDPUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-87144804661395342302015-11-16T22:25:29.507-08:002015-11-16T22:25:29.507-08:00good piece....good piece....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10562020314324287581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-49929603704224897132015-11-06T03:00:13.483-08:002015-11-06T03:00:13.483-08:00This is a useful discussion, I tried to link it t...This is a useful discussion, I tried to link it to Babble group, which at least at first glance does not seem to have much going on about this topic. FYI <br />http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/where-does-ndp-go-nowBill Darehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08220175605916389545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-30519976253172522782015-11-06T01:19:47.068-08:002015-11-06T01:19:47.068-08:00Your criticism has some truth to it. But I'd ...Your criticism has some truth to it. But I'd suggest that, in the broader picture, the policies you mention ended up as just one participating factor in a campaign that came across as incoherent /and/ insincere (quite an accomplishment).<br /><br /> Proposing these fairly substantial policies, while at the same time talking about balanced budgets, no tax rises and middle-class-this middle-class-that, simply /amplified/ the perception created by 1) a party trying to control its message instead of connect with the public, and 2) a leader who seemed to be pretending to be someone else. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08040217690604940509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-89491944511530431792015-10-30T10:04:43.029-07:002015-10-30T10:04:43.029-07:00Conclusion:
I honestly found the debate gambit by...Conclusion:<br /><br />I honestly found the debate gambit by Mulcair baffling from the outset. What LOO regardless of party lets a PM with the record of Harper get away with that without denouncing him to the highest for it, and does everything he can to try and force him back to the Consortium debates? He could (and I say should) have told Harper something like "I am fine with additional debates so long as you agree to the Consortium debates, but since they reach the most voters by a much greater degree than any other debate can we must all be present for that one or else I will not debate you anywhere and debate your empty chair at the Consortium debate." Yet Mulcair didn't wait 48 hrs last May to take the position he did instead, letting Harper off that hook. I really think that decision was the true beginning of the end for the NDP in this election campaign, and the true beginning of the return of Trudeau as the anti-Harper vehicle. Of course the rest of the elements you raise in this post of yours also come into play, but I think this is where it truly started, and I think this is being missed by many even among those willing to see he flaws in the campaign itself.<br /><br />Overall though this is one of the best analyses of the NDP defeat I've seen yet, pity you are clearly in the minority about it within NDP circles so far. The NDP needs to take a cold hard look at what really happened if it is to have any real chance at becoming effective again anytime soon, and while I am not an NDPer myself I have always in the past valued having a strong NDP voice as part of our political dynamic, right until Layton decided to sell out to Harper in the hopes of killing off the Libs and replacing them for government. I would love it if the party finally understood what it had done there and rediscovered their roots, this national badly needs a true progressive voice to go against the clearly more extreme CPC right wing that is developing and the broader centrists the Liberals have become.Scotianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06284856315992405261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-42400078343746079522015-10-30T10:01:53.584-07:002015-10-30T10:01:53.584-07:00In large part this analysis of the NDP defeat matc...In large part this analysis of the NDP defeat matches my own, with the exception of one element which I believe to have been more significant than many seem to be willing to consider. That being the joining with Harper in not dong the Consortium debates last May and continuing that position at the beginning of the election when Mulcair pulled out of the women's debate he had a year earlier promised to attend and had many times made a big point about attending. I see that as what neutralized the C51 hit on Trudeau with many of the progressive anti-Harper voters on the democratic defender argument, especially since when you get right down to it an empty vote on bad legislation from a majority government for political expediency reasons is one thing, while making a decision which directly and negatively affects a national election campaign is quite another.<br /><br />This is important because it took the defenders of democracy mantle away from Mulcair and the NDP, especially when the party lined right up on this decision and used the logic they did to defend it. Only need to debate Harper because it was Harper they were interested in defeating. If any prior LOO had used that line to side with a PM doing the same while the NDP were the third party of Parliament they would have SHRIEKED in anger and outrage about how anti-democratic this was, how this was active collusion to prevent other voices from being heard nationally, and they would have been RIGHT to do so. Yet the party and its partisans seemed oblivious to this and defended this decision without blinking. I see this as being the first heavy blow to a what appeared to be solid ice sheet that the NDP support was standing on placing many deep cracks throughout it but since they were below the surface not noticed at the time.<br /><br />Then came the economic update, the costing roll-out which was clearly poorly managed and using clearly out-of-date and wildly overly optimistic CPC budget figuresto rely on, the decision to be deficit hawks, and the Trudeau's infrastructure deficit spending, which combined was the second heavy blow to this ice, and when that force hit it caused those underlying cracks to complete into fractures which broke up that once solid surface and sent that NDP support sinking under its own weight on ground that no longer gave them any purchase.<br /><br />I would also add that the withdrawal from the Women's issues debate specifically caused problems because of the Harper wouldn't be there argument, since that by this time was the position in general had a hollow ring I suspect for many who were interested in that debate. I know I was interested in it, and I also knew I never believed Harper would be caught dead at such a debate given his record on women's issues and his contempt for that part of the voting public. The womens vote he was interested in was not those that would be following that debate, no he was more interested in those like that had made up REAL Women in the past. Mulcair had to have understood that when he agreed to this debate last year, as should any progressive or centrist political actor, and that made his excuse for not attending after all have a particularly hollow and expediency driven vibe to it, which when you are trying to argue you are the only leader and party that does not make decisions on such grounds is NOT a wise move.<br /><br />to be concludedScotianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06284856315992405261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-2292555238415012472015-10-26T12:56:11.339-07:002015-10-26T12:56:11.339-07:00I agree - and I am am hoping to get Nathan Cullen ...I agree - and I am am hoping to get Nathan Cullen to finally say why the NDP refused to issue a statement on the Bank of Canada Federal Court action being argued by Rocco Galati. There is something very unbecoming about this - that has shades of stalking horse behaviour for Power Corp. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907468376887887638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-15889848049551288352015-10-26T12:43:09.350-07:002015-10-26T12:43:09.350-07:00I never felt deluded with wanting to have a govern...I never felt deluded with wanting to have a government of the people. In fact, I knew the NDP had developed weaknesses. All I wanted to do was stop Harper and create a country where equality was still important. My delusion lay in the fact that other Canadians wanted it too. I was wrong. Canadians want the status quo. That is why I no longer want to be one. I'm 66 and have been paying attention to politics for half my life. I'm moving on now and hope all the best for you remaking ones. Thanks for listening.Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16832874613140398266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-26616907799153185722015-10-26T12:42:34.652-07:002015-10-26T12:42:34.652-07:00I never felt deluded with wanting to have a govern...I never felt deluded with wanting to have a government of the people. In fact, I knew the NDP had developed weaknesses. All I wanted to do was stop Harper and create a country where equality was still important. My delusion lay in the fact that other Canadians wanted it too. I was wrong. Canadians want the status quo. That is why I no longer want to be one. I'm 66 and have been paying attention to politics for half my life. I'm moving on now and hope all the best for you remaking ones. Thanks for listening.Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16832874613140398266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-71887516012902653982015-10-26T11:58:17.540-07:002015-10-26T11:58:17.540-07:00Thanks for the analysis and good to see debate and...Thanks for the analysis and good to see debate and sharing of how the ndp works, for sure. It seems all the parties have their control/strangle hold people, sadly I see this with numerous organizations. <br /><br />People like Heather Menzies in her work on "Reclaiming the Commons" is chipping on this little issue of human cooperation and governance. I've tossed the link here, http://www.heathermenzies.ca/blog/?page_id=84 (hopefully blogspot will not muck with it as the last guy who tried to post a link as it defeats the whole purpose of what the web is supposed to be doing)Bill Darehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08220175605916389545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-23121964563237063982015-10-26T09:14:10.242-07:002015-10-26T09:14:10.242-07:00I think you are right to a degree. But the simple ...I think you are right to a degree. But the simple fact is that as the author may be focusing on "feelings rather than fact" so do many people do the same in politics in general. And I think that the author is correct that the rhetoric of "balanced budget" discourse, simply alienated many people (particularly in Quebec) who were going to vote NDP. And I believe that the author is also correct when he says that if the NDP had not made this emphasis on balancing the budget and instead emphasized their progressive policies and then said, we will balance the budget after a few years after this progressive agenda is in place, then things would have been very different. Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-48914754312546188852015-10-26T09:07:50.096-07:002015-10-26T09:07:50.096-07:00That can't happen Denis because NDP convention...That can't happen Denis because NDP conventions are essentially run by the leadership. I have seen it firsthand - nothing comes to the floor of an NDP convention that the leadership doesn't want there (at least in recent years). For this party to use the epithet "Democratic" in its name is deeply ironic. A handful of hopeless people like Anne McGrath and Brad Lavigne have a stranglehold on the NDP and they are running it right into the ground. Many a progressive political movement has been crippled by caution and the mediocrity of its back-room sycophants. Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-47562835369971303932015-10-26T09:05:59.351-07:002015-10-26T09:05:59.351-07:00This piece is a whole lot of hooey. The NDP ran o...This piece is a whole lot of hooey. The NDP ran on a universal national daycare strategy. Ran on a national and universal pharmacare plan. Ran on a targeted climate change reduction strategy. Ran on proportional representation. Ran on the execution of a national inquiry into MMIW within the first 100 days of forming a government,<br /><br />The author, in his extremely passive writing style, focuses on his feelings rather than fact. I am certainly no fan of Tom Mulcair, but to suggest this was worst campaign in history shows that the author has no knowledge of Canadian history.<br /><br />The PC campaign of 1993, the CA campaign of 2000, the Liberal campaign of 1984 all displayed far greater collapses in popular vote. Lest the author forget, this is the second most seats the NDP has even received in a general election.<br /><br />Delusion - ha. It is apparent - in the form of an author who displays propaganda pics from the Supreme Soviet circa 1935 on his blog. Enjoy you Stalinism Fraser. I'm sure you'd make a great Stakhohnov.thus always to tyrantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06508917195673554539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-76666354098872372042015-10-25T22:27:28.773-07:002015-10-25T22:27:28.773-07:00I will be watching for the NDP membership to take ...I will be watching for the NDP membership to take things in hand at the next NDP convention which automatically has a leadership review vote. Mind you I am not very optimistic given what the members did to the party's constitution, getting rid of any reference to its socialist roots. I was not really aware that the NDP had been so cool to media during the campaign - no wonder media was so cool to the party by mid-campaign. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04104773962951150616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-82773659006024266932015-10-25T19:24:57.892-07:002015-10-25T19:24:57.892-07:00What a fascinating blog, particularly this current...What a fascinating blog, particularly this current analysis. I posted something now on my own blog, including a reference to this site, but I will seem superficial in comparison. http://bit.ly/1k3MjhzAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198420800981498239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-74026942406552546622015-10-25T16:24:10.560-07:002015-10-25T16:24:10.560-07:00This was a solid analysis. This was a solid analysis. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14682679156100801661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-45036905358800051642015-10-25T13:55:06.267-07:002015-10-25T13:55:06.267-07:00The slide started at the last Fed Convention when ...The slide started at the last Fed Convention when the preamble of our constitution was stripped of references to our socialist roots Jim GillAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11139662995075582402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-26016969538384290652015-10-25T10:49:40.251-07:002015-10-25T10:49:40.251-07:00Hi Herb,
Actually, I have the settings set so tha...Hi Herb,<br /><br />Actually, I have the settings set so that comments are not moderated in advance. I moderate them myself later if necessary. <br /><br />So I am not sure why google blogspot would not let you post your comment/link. Maybe they have an automatic "spam" filter that blocked it for some reason, but I did not block it. :) <br /><br />Just for the record, I allow all comments unless they are personally insulting, racist, sexist, homophobic or possible libelous, so I did not, in this case, block the comment.<br /><br />ThanksMichael Laxerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12840752500155974113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-75994390584383346212015-10-25T09:49:02.891-07:002015-10-25T09:49:02.891-07:00Google COMER -- Committee On Monetary and Economic...Google COMER -- Committee On Monetary and Economic Reform to find what was censored in my first post. <br />Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474083414027573138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-76054604782150898872015-10-25T09:47:51.430-07:002015-10-25T09:47:51.430-07:00So this blog censors replies and won't publish...So this blog censors replies and won't publish a link to someone else's article refuting a portion of what is here. Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474083414027573138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-73160454010667114272015-10-25T09:46:05.647-07:002015-10-25T09:46:05.647-07:00I agree with a lot what David said except his take...I agree with a lot what David said except his take on the balanced budget. He spouts the conventional myths and wanted the NDP to jump on board with them. I agree that was the turning point in the campaign but it was because the inner circle are out of touch with the grassroots of the party and ignored advice from us at the time. What David fails to realize and most voters is that even balanced budgets transfer enormous amount so of tax dollars to the wealthy as interest on the debt and that was not the case before Trudeau Sr. Debt service charges is the third highest expenditure in the budget after seniors and health care and is higher than defense. In this article David buys into the banksters spin that the debt is a low percentage of the GDP. What nonsense. Pure obfuscation. See my articles about this at . <br />Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474083414027573138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-24523300564182890982015-10-25T08:17:09.464-07:002015-10-25T08:17:09.464-07:00Well said David.Well said David.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08159348613277538319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-24125876651467312102015-10-25T08:15:41.514-07:002015-10-25T08:15:41.514-07:00" It is business as usual in the Green Party ..." It is business as usual in the Green Party and don’t expect much to change there as Elizabeth May is more than happy to have the party be largely irrelevant as long as she continues to get some media attention."<br /><br />What do you mean by this throw away line?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06793983489838900002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4305888946584866654.post-88281396079861015852015-10-25T07:44:02.706-07:002015-10-25T07:44:02.706-07:00Super excellent piece. Thank you. I have been mak...Super excellent piece. Thank you. I have been making some of the same comments about the NDP's unwillingness to put this loss at their own feet and instead blaming the "duped electorate" who, apparently, blindly chose the Liberals to defeat Harper rather than any notion that it could have been that the electorate actually just did not like what the NDP was selling as much. The idea that Mulcair just blithely stays on is, as you indicate, perplexing.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01683670657973458101noreply@blogger.com